“The poetry of the welfare state”

From Dr. Dalyrmple:

Imagine it in verse form:Listen, you bitch.

I’m gonna cut your tits off

And nonce your children.

This is the very lyricism of the slums, the poetry of the welfare state.

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29 Responses to “The poetry of the welfare state”

  1. theobsidianfiles says:

    Hi Foseti,
    I see listening isn’t one of your strong suits, LOL. Didn’t we have this conversation yesterday? About how, if you’re really serious about learning about Black folk, the first thing you do is actually BE around Black folk?

    Now, I’m fairly secure in the fact that I know more about Hip Hop than you do, so let me ask-exactly how do you know what you posted above is what’s actually said in Hip Hop songs?

    O.

  2. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    OK, will do, but it seem that he’s speaking not just for his native UK, but the USA, as well. Am I correct?

    And again, given that we both have agreed that the biggest entitlements are SS and Medicaid, why the excessive focus on issues like these? What gives?

    O.

  3. theobsidianfiles says:

    So, let me get this straight: a small percentage of the Black American population is “destroying civilization”? How so? How is it keeping you from achieving your dreams? Or preventing the White people around you from achieving theirs? And again: if you’re serious about cutting gov’t spending on entitlements, you’d have to start with SS and Medicaid-yet, you HBDers NEVER discuss this unless directly asked about the matter. You ONLY focus on welfare, which has been reformed, to such an extant that birthrates among African Americans in toto closely mirror thoe of Whites.

    Honestly Foseti, I am getting the distinct impression from you that yours is more than a “dispassionate, professional, scholarly” interest in these issues. Like I said before (and I hope we get to continue that discussion, it was a good one), I for one am completely cool with you simply not liking Black people, despite your freely admitted ignorance of them personally. As an American, you have the right to be an ignorant bigot, to give voice to your ignorant bigotry, and to freely associate with fellow ignorant bigots. Unlike you, I am willing to tolerate this, because I realize that this is the price of freedom in a democracy that prides itself on, among other things, freedom of speech.

    Back to you…

    O.

    • Foseti says:

      Obsidian,

      First, you’re the one making the wildly racist assumption (heh) that the person quoted by the good doctor was black. It being Britain, I assumed he was probably “Asian” (i.e. Pakistani).

      Second, Scott’s comment below is probably a better way of putting my point. I’ll expand, if you want. I think we have an alliance forming in our society which forms in all fully democratic societies. The elites take power and maintain power by shoveling favors to an underclass, which in turns supports the elites. This process will eventually destroy our civilization at is has destroyed other democratic civilizations. It affects me only in that I have to be inside my house by 11:00pm every day and there are certain of my cities that I am effectively barred from visiting. Further, I pay taxes to support educating students at a cost of approximately $15,000/year. The purpose of spending so much is to “close the racial gap.” In other words, to waste my money.

      Third, my interest is only passionate to the extent that these are serious problems which PC society effectively prevents us from acknowledging and discussing openly without resorting to name calling (e.g. “ignorant bigot”).

      Finally, if I have no experience with blacks, I’m not sure which whites in our country do. On any given day, I’m around as many black people as white people. My city is majority black and I work with plenty of blacks.

  4. ScottS says:

    A small percentage of the Black American population are NOT “destroying civilization”. In fact, I don’t think they have enough power in and of themselves to do anything of the sort.

    What they are is the most obvious example of what happens to society when other more widespread social trends are taken to their natural conclusion. This small population of Black Americans are a symptom of societal decay, not a cause.

    Cut SS, Medicare, and welfare. All of it.

  5. theobsidianfiles says:

    Scott,
    Exactly HOW are the Black underclass a “sign” of “societal decay”? Please explain? I wanna hear this one…

    O.

  6. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    First off, I am actually quite familiar with the author you’ve quoted, I’ve read a number of pieces he’s written, and like you, he seems to nuture a focus on the underclass, in his case it happens to be Britain’s “Chav” subculture, etc. I was talking about YOUR focus HERE in the USA, and while you claim to work among Black folks, it is clear-you even said so yourself-that you really don’t know much about them. For example, you haven’t been on Z St. You haven’t been to a Black wedding, or funeral, or family reunion. You haven’t been to a Black barbershop, or a Black eatery, or a Black church. You haven’t broken bread round a Black dinner table. In short, you really have very limited information, firsthand, about Black Americans with which to draw on. Yet you seem very satisfied in making the most sweeping generaltizations about Black folk, all the while opining on public policy matters along the way.

    I’ve written quite a bit about education policy particularly in the Obama era today on my blog. Have a look. You just might be surprised by what you see.

    And, *who* are these elites you speak of? Give me some names, that the plebs are supposed to be in bed with?

    Lastly, who do you like for mayor of DC?

    O.

    • Foseti says:

      I don’t where/what Z st. is. I’ve been to a wedding that included a black person getting married, but I wouldn’t call it a black wedding. I’ve never been to a black funeral or a black family reunion (I’m not sure how I’d ever get invited to a black family reunion). I did get my haircut once at a black barbershop in the neighborhood. I’ve been lots of black eateries, but I’ve never been to a black church, nor have I eaten in a black home (though I have eaten in a mixed-race home).

      I don’t see how I could realistically get a lot more experience. In truth, the races don’t really seem to want to mix much more than this.

      I think it’s pretty clear who the elites are in this country. The essay I link to here plus my responseshould give you a good idea.

      I’m disenfranchised DC, since I’m registered as an independent and our election is the democratic primary. Plus, I don’t like voting. If I had to vote, I would probably have voted for Fenty, since *The Washington Post*told people to vote for him. Who am I to question the Post?

  7. Obsidian,

    You could get everything you need, all the answers to your questions, by reading the entirety of La Griffe du Lion and Mencius Moldbug. Instead you pester Foseti ingratiatingly with your lamely evolved but fundamentally ethnocentric victim complex worldview. Asking irrelevant questions about his motivations, constantly insinuating, failing to get the point.

    Yes, we actually do care about civilization. No, we don’t think blacks are the cause of Western civilization’s decline, just an annoying symptom. However, they are a very useful way to puncture the equalitarian myth, which is central to decline, since we have copious scientific, statistical and historical data demonstrating black genetic inequality.

    If you want to understand decline and the natural cycle of empires, go here http://voxday.blogspot.com/2010/09/immigration-and-fate-of-empires.html and more importantly read the original source: http://www.arlev.co.uk/glubb/index.htm

    There is nothing new under the sun. The problem of black people in America does not deserve the exclusive significance and focus that YOU give it here on this site.

    Judging by your writing, your IQ might just be high enough to develop a less ethnocentric worldview if you read the above sources, but your mental conditioning and personal identity probably will never allow you to. I’m not going to spoon feed you any further, so save the inane questions, and trust that whatever nuanced emotional reactions you have to what I’ve written will be completely ignored.

  8. ScottS says:

    The black underclass is a “sign” of “societal decay” in the sense that their culture – very low marriage rates, very high illegitimacy rate, disdain of education, zero pride of ownership, drugs, crime, worship of thug culture, promiscuity, etc – is what develops when a population is subjected to liberal social policy for decades at a time. The rest of the country is on the same path, this population is just farther along.

    I lived in south Chicago for several years, with black friends and neighbors. I’ve experienced the difference in culture first hand. The black middle class was virtually destroyed by liberal policies, and only now am I seeing signs of a resurgence. I am thrilled to see it, as it means that some have finally thrown off the victim complex and have decided to lift themselves up. No one can lift themselves but themselves, and I applaud every sign of success that I see.

  9. theobsidianfiles says:

    Scott,
    You’re almost as bad as Foseti in your rank ignorance of basic facts on the issues you deign informed to opine about. Let’s see if we can help you out a bit:

    For one thing, if you are indeed familiar with Chitown, you would have known that its middle class has long been in Hyde Park, NOT the Southside. And by all accounts, according to Northwestern University professor Mary Patillo, who specializes on studying the Black middle class, AND herself lives in Hyde Park, Black folk living there are doing quite well for themselves, and have been for quite some time now.

    This “fact” alone by you, makes me seriously question your veracity on all other matters.

    Take for example your “lament” about the “upward creep” of Black underclass behavior; by all accounts, this is simply not the case. White middle class and above people are still marrying, still having kids within wedlock, stil buying homes and still making nice lives for themselves. As I’ve noted above, the same is more or less true for the Black middle class. The only Whites who have cause for concern, are the ones you see on Jerry Springer or Maury-flyover or Southern states, poor, working class and below White folks, who guys like you never had much love for anyway.

    So let’s cut the crap, hmm?

    As for the drugs trade: the truth is, that those who are caught in its grip-primarily Black and Latino males-kill each other. You and Foseti have little to fear, and never did. If you were so inclined, you could score a stash of get-high relatively easily and safely. The drugs trade is a major economic engine of the USA and Mexico, and beyond. This is the major reason why it is highly unlikely to be legalized.

    The simple truth is, to be middle class-as you and Foseti are-is to be in constant fear of falling out of it. Hence the constant harping on the part of guys like you both-who weren’t born lucky enough to be members of the idle rich, nor have the coveted brainpower enough to be the next Zuckermans. The Black underclass-for all intents and purposes an abstraction to you both-therefore provides an acceptable scapegoat for all you frustrations.

    Try again, this time with someone who actually knows better.

    O.

  10. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    Whether the races do or don’t want to know each other better is irrelevant-YOU are the one who constantly writes about African Americans, and very badly at that. It is YOU who, if you’re serious about being informed on the matter, must educate himself in order to at least know what it is he is talking about. You make getting to know Black folk, in a majority Black city, something akin to breaking into Fort Knox-it ain’t that hard or deep to do.

    But of course, the real reason why you do what you do, has almost nothing to do with trying to understand Black folk. In truth, you really don’t care one way or another. You’ve said as much yourself recently when I asked you about all this; your concern is with telling the SWPLs what they can do with what you deem to be sanctimonious behavior and views on their part, to say nothing of what you deem to be their blatant hypocrisy when it comes to a host of issues, topmost of which, are racial. Yours, is a big middle finger to the values of your youth, to what you deem to be the “pretty lies” that were spoon fed to you.

    Of course, you’re barking up the wrong tree, Foseti, *even if you’re right*. I’ll let that hang out there for a moment so you can chew on that.

    Holla back

    O.

    • Foseti says:

      Obsidian,

      What is it that I will discover that will change my mind if I hang out with more black people in black settings?

      Last night, five blocks from my house a car was burned in an alley at 3am.

      Will I discover that dinner time around a black family table is so wonderful that having burned-out cars in alleys is totally worth it? It would have to be a pretty awesome dinner . . .

  11. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    *shrugs* Ever heard of Prince George’s County? Take a drive up there and do a bit of research. Stop being so scurred, LOL.

    But of course, we both know you really aren’t interested in learning anything about Black folk. You know all you need to know, which serves as a good cudgel to bash them dastardly SWPLs right back in head.

    Ain’t that right, Foseti?

    O.

    • Foseti says:

      Again, I think I’ve learned as much as possible and I don’t see what I might learn that will change how I view the obviously bad side effects of living in largely black areas.

  12. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    Sure. I get it, Foseti-your aim, and that of your fellow HBDers, is to prove the SWPLs wrong about Black folk. Good luck with that!

    O.

  13. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    Look. I didn’t need anyone to explain to me why it was necessary to read the Bell Curve. It was I that wanted to better understand what HBDers were talking about. So it fell to me to educate myself as best I could.

    This isn’t about fact-finding as much as it is about making a point with you, Foseti. And as I’ve said before, I get that. I have no problem with you doing any of that. You have the right to your views and to give voice to them. Believe it or not, I actually see where you’re coming from, more than you may realize.

    I just wish you were a lot more upfront about your aims and that which drives them. You do science a grave disservice when you do otherwise.

    O.

    • Foseti says:

      I think I’ve done a pretty job being exposed to black people. I freely admit that there are aspects of their culture that I like, but there are some pretty serious downsides.

      I don’t think I’ve been dishonest in any way during any of discussions on race.

  14. ScottS says:

    Given that I lived in Hyde Park and this black middle class that your expert claims to exist was nowhere to be found, who exactly is full of crap here?

    I take that back. There were a handful. If this tiny community, protected by a university and it’s hangers on, living in the middle of a gigantic cesspool, is what constitutes the black middle class of south Chicago, you and your experts are seriously missing some perspective.

  15. mondaybooks says:

    The prisoner he was talking about is almost certainly white, if that helps!

  16. theobsidianfiles says:

    Foseti,
    Indeed, what you say has a lot of merit. The problem is, that you neglect to leave out the fact that the gov’t is a huge employer of Whites as well.

    Also, if Joseph is reading along…

    I welcome your thoughts and views, and have tried to access your blog, but couldn’t, several times; I kept getting error messages.

    O.

  17. O,

    I just tried the link and it works. Here it is again:

    http://josephsblog.typepad.com/shorts/2010/09/letter-to-a-black-ethninnylectual.html

    You could also find it using blog search.

    If you’re getting error messages, perhaps it’s one of my plugins. If you’d like to help me troubleshoot, my email is joseph.dantes@gmail.com

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