Zuckerberg’s money

Does anyone want to bet that Zuckerberg’s money will not fix the Newark, NJ public schools?


67 Responses to Zuckerberg’s money

  1. theobsidianfiles says:

    Hi Foseti,
    I’m not much of a betting man, but what the heck, I’ll bite:

    Why would you say that Zuckerberg’s money wouldn’t fix Newark’s public schools? What do you recommend be done to fix them? What do you see as the problem with said schools, and why did you single them out, given that you live way down in DC?

    Holla back


    • Foseti says:

      This from a while back, but NJ tops the country in per student spending already and still gets terrible results.

      More money has already failed to solve the problem. Clearly, what is needed is more money.

  2. theobsidianfiles says:

    Yes, but what would YOU suggest, to fix he problem, Foseti? Don’t by coy, now. Out with it!


    • Foseti says:

      I’m not liberal. I don’t think that everything is a “problem” to be “fixed.”

      Some things just are.

      You seem to be totally unable to grasp this mindset.

  3. theobsidianfiles says:

    Yawn. I never said you were a liberal. I merely asked what you suggest be done about something YOU pointed out was a bad situation. It seems you have no solutions to many of the problems you write about. You just seem to like to bitch, whine and moan, which are, quite frankly, turnoffs. And which probably explains why those of your political stripe, get nowhere fast.

    But, go on, please!


    • Foseti says:

      You on the other hand are full of “solutions” that have already failed to “problems” that have never shown any possibility of being “solved.”

      I may bitch, but my bitching is costless. Solutions are expensive and – every now and then – deadly.

  4. theobsidianfiles says:

    Hi Foseti, so what, we gonna switch the goalposts now that I caught your ass cold busted? LOL! Alrighty then…

    What solutions have I specifically outlined, that have proven to fail, Foseti? My blog contains upwards of 250 posts since its inception. It also has a search engine. By all means, feel free to knock yourself out. I’ll wait.

    True, bitching is costfree-and they’re also very non-effective.

    Good luck with that, Mr. Braniac Almightee!



    • Foseti says:

      How are the goal posts switching?

      A major theme in HBD-land generally is that things that liberals consider “problems” are just facts of nature. You’re no more going to “fix” Newark schools than you’re going to be able to make everyone in Newark 7 feet tall.

      You seem to be cognitively unable to escape the modern liberal formulation of viewing everything in society through a lens of “problems” to be “solved.”

  5. ScottS says:

    Here, I’ll offer a suggestion. Shut ’em down. All they do is offer “free” babysitting and funnel money to powerful self-serving unions.

    The kids are not getting an education now. They won’t be getting one under my plan either, and my plan is way cheaper. So clearly it is a step in the right direction.

  6. theobsidianfiles says:


    OK, let’s take a look at your plan:

    You say shutdown the schools. What do we do with the kids then? And, how much would that cost relative to what we’re paying now?

    Your response?


  7. theobsidianfiles says:

    Hi Foseti,
    Replies below:

    F: A major theme in HBD-land generally is that things that liberals consider “problems” are just facts of nature. You’re no more going to “fix” Newark schools than you’re going to be able to make everyone in Newark 7 feet tall.

    O: But our democracy isn’t a “fact” of nature, Foseti, indeed, we don’t call it the Great Experiment for nothing. What HBDism really is, is “scientific” determinism, no more than religious fatalism in a lab coat. And it is deeply antithetical to the way Americans see themselves-which is why HBD will never gain traction in the public square, to say nothing in terms of political or economic support.

    If you’re so smart Foseti, how is it you consistently find ways to come out on the losing end of every issue? If the HBDers are so smart, how do they?

    F: You seem to be cognitively unable to escape the modern liberal formulation of viewing everything in society through a lens of “problems” to be “solved.”

    O: Let’s assume for the moment that’s true, and consider the following idea-that HBDism is inherently incompatible to the ideas enshrined in our Constitution, where not everyone is created equal, but that we do not accept a static or fixed, rigid social caste system. Indeed, we find such things repugnant in our time. Obama stands as a testament to our most cherished values.

    Now, Asian socieites-most notably China-is quite friendly to HBD. But notice that China is also quite hostile to ideas like freedom of speech and assembly, freedom of the press, and the opportunity of people to move up in social class. India, to a certain extent, engenders such ideas also, especially in the social caste areas.

    It is for these reasons, that these countries will continue to flounder.

    Holla back!


  8. ScottS says:

    Why do we have to do anything with the kids? We let them run feral for 18 hours a day already. What’s wrong with another 6?

    If you’re so smart Foseti, how is it you consistently find ways to come out on the losing end of every issue? If the HBDers are so smart, how do they?
    Because being right is unpopular. We’d rather be right than popular. You can keep your collective delusions.

  9. theobsidianfiles says:

    Your solution will invariably create costs, most likely more and much higher, than the ones Foseti is bitching about right now. Take for example, crime costs. Have you taken into consideration what this would be if your plan came to pass? And if indeed it turned out to be even more expensive than what Foseti is bitching about right now, how do you then justify it?

    See, that’s what public policy making is all about-thinking deeply about solving problems. The big problem with the HBD set is, though they want to be in on the public policy debate, they come up woefully short when it comes to actually tackling problems.

    And YES, being popular matters in a free society as this one. If you ain’t popular, you don’t count. No one cares about a loser who was right.

    And no one ever erected a statue to a critic.

    Try again.:)


  10. ScottS says:

    We already don’t enforce the law in the inner cities, where these failed schools are. I see no additional cost.

    Being popular is easy. And stupid. All you have to do is offer free stuff to the masses and stroke their egos periodically.

    If popularity is more important to you than truth, I don’t know what to say to you. You haven’t really matured past high school.

  11. theobsidianfiles says:

    Replies below:

    S: We already don’t enforce the law in the inner cities, where these failed schools are. I see no additional cost.

    O: False. We lockup way more people now, check the prison rolls.

    S: Being popular is easy. And stupid. All you have to do is offer free stuff to the masses and stroke their egos periodically.

    O: Uh huh. Which explains why guys like you are perpetual losers, right?

    S: If popularity is more important to you than truth, I don’t know what to say to you. You haven’t really matured past high school.

    O: That’s not what I meant. In a democracy, things are done by way of the vote. That means, that in order for your solutions to problems to ever reach the light of day, either you, or someone who likes your idea(s), has to get enough people to be willing to vote for them.

    Please name the public officials, who have said that they agree with HBD and public policy based on it?


    PS: So, do you support Stalin, a Man who had numerous statues erected in his honor?

  12. ScottS says:

    Uh huh, we lock up a bunch of people. And the streets are still owned by gangs and drug dealers. If we were actually going to go in and clean house, you’d have a point. As it is, a bunch more kids on the street will change nothing. No additional effort will be made.

    Yes, it is precisely why “guys like [me] are perpetual losers.” Guys like me aren’t interested in stooping to your level just to get elected. FDR started the electorate bribery train, and everyone jumped right on. It’ll be ridden straight into oblivion. Have a nice ride. I’m not going with you.

    I have no interest in pushing for my solutions to see the light of day. The masses and those who manipulate them are impenetrable, now that they’ve got a taste of glorious and unending free stuff. My interest is solely in finding other people who are interested in the truth, finding a way to survive and thrive in this decadent craphole the rest of you have created, and preparing to rebuild once the society you push has crashed and burned.

    Bluntly, I’ve written you off. You folks aren’t the least bit interested in helping yourselves in anything resembling an intelligent fashion, so as far as I’m concerned, all that’s left for me to do is isolate myself from you folks, ride out the inevitable crash, and get to work on the next generation of kids that will be raised in reality rather than the delusional fantasy world you folks inhabit. I really, truly, do not care about trying to get you folks around to my point of view.

    I gotta tell you, it’s really quite liberating once you give up trying to solve other people’s problems. I love my life, my island of culture, truth, intelligence, beauty, and reality. You folks were a weight on my shoulders, and I’ve cut you loose. Now I suggest you stay off my lawn.

  13. ScottS says:

    PS – What’s up with the statue thing? You’re the one who thinks popularity is important. Not me/us.

  14. theobsidianfiles says:

    LMAO!!! That parting shot by you sums you up perfectly-you remind me of a crotchety old White codger, shaking his cane at the young whipper snappers who ran accross his lawn on the way home from school. Hah!

    Anyway, enjoy your self-imposed exile! Here’s to seeing you on the other side of the apocalypse…



  15. ScottS says:

    That’s the way I see myself, too. So I guess we’re on the same page. 🙂

    My exile is grand, you will hear no complaints about it from me. Mind the crocs in the moat.

  16. theobsidianfiles says:

    Because, that’s not the world in which we live, that’s why. Public schools are a reality of our time. We have to find a workable solution within that framework.

    Question: if Mark Zuckerberg had decided to donate 100M toward helping deserving but poor White Males educationally, would you be for it, and if so, why?


    • Foseti says:

      I wouldn’t support donating money via the public school system “to” people of any race. Such donations will almost certainly benefit administrators and prevent actual reforms.

  17. ScottS says:

    Oh, you want a solution within that framework? Fair grading, with strict enforcement. Then three strikes and you’re out. You fail three times, and you get booted from school for good. The primary problem with the schools is the kids that don’t want to be there making it impossible for everyone else to learn by disruption problems, and by sucking up so many resources that the ones who ARE redeemable don’t get the attention they need. The schools can’t make these kids learn, without giving the state the same power as the parents. I’m unwilling to do that. So if the parents are unwilling to make the kids make an effort in school, boot em, and work with the ones that are interested in taking advantage of the opportunity. This will likely simultaneously reduce costs and boost net performance.

    The schools have other problems too, but that’s step 1.

    As for white kids vs black kids and your ongoing obsession with “you’re a racist!”, I vote against every school millage in my overwhelmingly white district. Until they show some interest in using the money wisely, I’m all for no longer throwing good money after bad.

  18. ScottS says:

    Fail = fail a grade, not fail a test.

  19. theobsidianfiles says:

    The problem here is that for one thing, the state of NJ currently runs Newark’s schools. Per Zuckerberg’s plan, Newark mayor Cory Booker would run the schools-whether that would work or not, remains to be seen.

    Secondly, aren’t there reform schools still around? The disruptive kids could be sent there…although that too would mean money being spent on that. Depending on whether we’re doing that presently, this could prove to be even more expensive than what we’ve got, right now.

    From what I’ve seen on tv, roughly half of all Newark school students graduate. That means there’s a lot of highschool dropouts. That kinda shoots your notion of all these disruptive kids in the classrooms, doesn’t it? I mean, these kids aren’t there in school to begin with.

    Look Scott-I can respect your sense of frustration. It is warranted. But it simply doesn’t address real problems we as a country face. And simply put, HBD hasn’t shown itself to be a viable way of addressing these problems either.

    I’m just sayin.


  20. ScottS says:

    I don’t see what your first paragraph has to do with my proposal.

    Without actual discipline, reform schools are just more free babysitting. Not interested.

    Re dropouts: not true. I volunteered in an inner city middle school. Pure chaos. Two redeemable kids out of 30. One was already being sucked away by gangs, and the other would later in high school. I have a friend who was a teacher at an inner city high school. Chaos, mixed with insults, swearing, and threats of violence. Kids don’t drop out until they are old enough to a) think of it and b) get away with it. They’ve got a good 10 years of screwing up everyone else’s education before they piss off.

    Sure, HBD fits right in to what I’m saying. I’m not interested in educating the lower portion of the bell curve, because those folks are interested in being educated. I say fine, let’s stop pretending that jamming those people in with the upper part of the bell curve out of some sense of equality is doing anyone any favors. Get them out, and focus resources on the people that care, regardless of where they fall on the bell curve. Though I’m sure you’ll find a correlation between where they fall on the bell curve and how much they care.

    Note that this has nothing to do with race. I think this should be universal – black schools, white schools, hispanic schools, mixed, I don’t care. From what I’ve seen, more blacks would get booted than other races, but I’m not the least bit interested in disparate impact arguments. Though this would happen only because blacks tend to have a dimmer view of education than other races. That may or may not have anything to do with HBD, I think it has more to do with culture.

  21. theobsidianfiles says:

    The problem your proposal doesn’t tackle, is what happens when we “cull the herd”-where do they go? If into prison, well, that costs money-big money, as it turns out. What if what you propose winds up costing MORE than that which makes Foseti complain about, right now? On economic grounds how do you justify it?

    What form of discipline do you suggest? And, per your argument, these kids would have had to start out messing up in school around the age of 5 or 6 or so. Are you suggesting we remand 5 and 6 year olds to reform school?


  22. theobsidianfiles says:

    Very good question, but, with all due respect, I didn’t put up this post, LOL. But I’ll try to respond.

    You know what, if you go to my blog, you’ll see for yourself what I think, at least in part, of the school mess. It’s called Obama Goes Back To School. Please check it out and holla back.


  23. ScottS says:

    You seem to think that kicking a bunch of kids out of school is going to send a bunch of kids to prison. I think that the ones going to prison are going to end up there regardless of whether or not the sit in school misbehaving for an extra couple years. The ones that aren’t going to prison can watch TV, like everyone else.

    5 and 6 year olds typically still have some awe of authority figures and some inherent respect for teachers. These teachers then have 3 years to try to instill some lasting sense of the value of education into kids. Note that I said three strikes, not one. So we’re talking 8 year olds, at the youngest. If they are so incorrigible that they screw up that many times, that young, I don’t have a problem with booting them. Not to reform school, to the street.

    Like I said before, the sort of punishment that I feel is sufficient and effective is too strong for state educators to wield. Only a parent, or someone designated by a parent, should be allowed to smack their kid. Compulsory schools staffed by teachers hired without input from the parents do not meet this threshold. The sort of discipline necessary involves many things considered too nasty for today’s enlightened educational system, up to and including corporal punishment.

  24. theobsidianfiles says:

    Again: this is your post, not mine. You have asked me to give my take on what the problems are in the school system-am I right? If so, my response was at least in part, to be found in my recent post on the matter, which includes Obama.

    Either you agree or disagree with that. *shrugs*


  25. theobsidianfiles says:

    It sounds like you are an advocate of hazing and/or other forms of physical violence and corporeal punishment. These have proven not to work, actually. Moreover, there is indeed a direct link btw lack of schooling and crime. Per your program, crime levels will definitely increase, which means, increased usage of the police, courts and jails, all of which cost real money. Again: how do you justify these expenses in light of what Foseti’s state concerns are?


  26. theobsidianfiles says:

    I’ve just gone back and read over the entire thread to date. I have said no such thing about Zuckberberg’s money solving problems. What I’ve been doing is putting you and Scot’s superior brains to the acid test, asking both of YOU what you think will be the solutions to the problems…and if you guys’ answers are any indication, no one has anything to worry about from the HBDers.

    I’m just sayin.


    • Foseti says:

      In your first response, you said you would take my bet: i.e. that you believe Zuck’s money will solve Newark schools problems.

      Seriously, it’s a super-simple question. Just tell me what problems you mean.

  27. theobsidianfiles says:

    Hi Foseti,
    No…what I meant to do was to examine your reasoning as to why Zuck’s plan and money wouldn’t work, and what you saw as a more viable solution. Your response, which is informed by HBD, is that there is no solution, owing to the fact that Blacks are too dumb to do anything with.

    OK, fine. So, do we dismantle the school system in Newark and beyond? And if so, are you then cool with increased spending on warehousing a very large prison population-even bigger than the one we currently have? Would you be OK with increased taxation to bring this about, Foseti?


    • Foseti says:

      Ok. So the Obsidian Problem is: that too many blacks kids in Newark dropping out of school.

      I would suggest dropping the goal of the modern educational system: making everyone equal. People with low IQs should be given some technical training and sent to work much more quickly (i.e. they don’t all need to go to college).

      Obviously my “solution” won’t solve the problem – it only formalizes it. The same number of people “drop out” but at least they don’t ruin the schools, waste so many resources and never have a chance to succeed.

      • It’s a good solution insofar as it limits itself to the scope of the problem provided.

        For a broader scope, I’d suggest:
        1. End government involvement in schooling.
        2. End government involvement in charity
        3. End government regulation of the labor market
        4. End government involvement in the property market except to enforce ownership.
        5. Disarm and localize the police.
        6. De-criminalize drugs, libel, vigilantism and dueling.

        From there, things should work themselves out.

      • In other words, the difference between today’s society and previous eras is much like the difference between decadent vs conquering Roman legions.

        Conquest era legions encamped at night with only ditches for fortifications, with gaps for counterattacks. Decadent era legions built massive walls, making them unable to go on the offensive.

        Today’s society is built so defensively that it lacks the ability to go on the defensive. Civil liberties advocates, e.g. libertarians, fail to see that their pet cause is decadent equalitarianism.

  28. ScottS says:

    You’re welcome to throw up studies saying corporal punishment doesn’t work. I’ll throw up counter-studies of my showing that it does. That will get us nowhere.

    I don’t understand how people can contend that it doesn’t work. I and millions of other parents have proven it to be quite effective. It even works with dogs. A couple academic studies by people who just happen to find results justifying their own biases does not overcome millions of real-world trials. Never let an academic override your common sense.

    Oh I’m sure there is a direct link between schooling and crime. Are you familiar with the concept of correlation vs causation?

    Have you been listening? Of course no one has anything to fear from the HBDers. The culture has been so immersed in liberal claptrap for so long that even hearing such things causes most to cover their ears in horror, lest the heresy singe their delicate little brains. For such things to actually be heard, analyzed, and God forbid, take root, is unthinkable.

    • icr says:

      The culture has been so immersed in liberal claptrap for so long that even hearing such things causes most to cover their ears in horror, lest the heresy singe their delicate little brains.

      Yes, Boasian dogma was hegemonic in the US -at least outside the South-even in the 1940’s.

  29. theobsidianfiles says:

    Let’s be clear here: I am not necessarily in disagreement with you personally. I’m just having a hard time seeing how what you propose would one, actually work, and two, would be more cost-effective than what we currently have. Again: let’s assume we implement your proposal, and we cull the incorrigble half (or more) of the herd.

    Now, let’s say that they do indeed windup making more trouble for the rest of us, which means, more money spent on cops, courts and jails.

    Question: how do you then justify this increase in expsenses to more fiscally conservative guys like Foseti-even if what you propose works?

    Your response?


    • ScottS says:

      Let’s assume for a moment that you are right. Let’s assume that a bunch of these kids end up in prison, costing us more money.

      With fewer kids in school, you’ve got FAR less expense there. Over HALF of my state’s budget is education. Chop that in half, and you can TRIPLE the corrections budget. That’s a lot of cops and prisons.

      I contend that you’d end up equal to or better than you were financially, and now you’ll end up with some educated kids rather than none.

  30. theobsidianfiles says:

    Joe Dante,
    Again: none of what you suggest is tenable. I thought you guys were of the cognitive elite? This is the best you guys can come up with?

    Come on!


    • Ob, you can continue to write responses to my comments if you like, but I will not be reading them, since you’ve repeatedly demonstrated to my satisfaction that you are a useless idiot.

  31. theobsidianfiles says:

    Hi Joe,
    That’s cool, I’d much rather be a useless idiot than a useful one, which you are most definitely are.

    You so smart, you can’t even see how you being used like a Two Dollah Ho, LOL


  32. theobsidianfiles says:

    OK, now we’re getting somewhere. Let’s examine what you’ve said:

    For one thing, we need to determine what the per student cost, per year, in Newark highschools currently are; and then find out what the per year cost it takes to house prison inmates in NJ. We can then find out which is more expensive relative to your plan.

    Holla back


  33. ScottS says:

    Given that I reject the entire premise of your argument, I’m not all that inclined to do a bunch of research on your behalf.

  34. theobsidianfiles says:

    Given that you’re an old crotchety White guy, who’s staring down demographic oblivion anyway, I am in no way surprised by your punk-out statement above.


  35. ScottS says:

    I spent a good part of this page of comments telling you that I think your argument is entirely flawed. Why exactly would I waste my time doing research to support YOUR argument when you are too lazy to do it yourself?

  36. theobsidianfiles says:

    Because it isn’t me who constantly whines, complains and bitches about these “NAM” problems, that’s why. I want to know, if you guys are so smart, why you can’t seem to get your asses in gear to actually propose solutions. Why is it that everything you do propose turns out to be nonstarters and goes down in failure flames. Why it is you guys sound like your just suffering from sour grapes.

    When you, Foseti, Joe Dante or any other if your ilk, actually comes up with something constructive, by all means, let me know!


    • Foseti says:


      Given that you refuse to *define your terms*, you are also only “whining and bitching.” True solutions can’t begin until the problems are at least define. In that sense, my criticism has been more constructive that your own writing which has so far been limited to criticism of criticism.

  37. theobsidianfiles says:

    I don’t have to define anything on my part, BECAUSE I’M NOT THE ONE BITCHING ABOUT “NAMs”.

    Do you understand that, Scott?

    It’s YOU, and Foseti, and the whole of the HBDsphere, that does that, day in and day out.

    Which is fine, but it would really be great if you guys could come up with some halfway decent and workable solutions to problems you all are obviously passionate about.

    And that’s where the problem comes in: none of you have come up with actual solutions. Even Sailer hasn’t. It seems you guys are great at defining who the culprits are, and what you don’t like, but come up woefully short on solving problems. This might explain, more than any notions of “truth”, etc, why you guys keep coming up on the wrong side of history.

    Again. And again. And again.

    Your proposal would more than likely, cost MORE than what is being spent right now on the Newark schools. Now, that’s fine if your goal is simply to “cull the herd” per the dictates of HBD. However, if your goal is fiscal responsibility, what you’re proposing is NOT cost effective.

    Really simple as that.


    • Foseti says:

      Actually, you’re the only person who has brought up NAMs. I just brought up the NJ school system. You jumped to – the frankly racist – conclusion that the problem was NAMs. Heh.

      I thought my proposal was pretty good, but since you won’t tell us what the problem is, it’s pretty hard to design a solution.

      Why don’t you give it a try? I thinking of a problem and I’m waiting for you to come up with a solution. Proceed . . .

  38. ScottS says:

    First, WTF is a NAM?

    Second, all of our solutions are non-starters because you unilaterally declare them to be absurd. We all happen to think you are dead wrong, so you’ll excuse us for blowing off your unsubstantiated objections. Saying “you’re wrong wrong WRONG” over and over again is a tantrum. Not an argument.

    Third, we’re on the wrong side of history because the masses and those who have learned to manipulate them have a symbiotic relationship that excludes anyone who is not on their bandwagon. What part of “I don’t really give a flying f*** if you drive your society into the ground” do you not understand? I’d honestly like to help, but I’ve learned that you folks aren’t the least bit interested in an honest approach to your problems. So frankly, you’re entire “come up with SOLUTIONS!” bit is bullshit. You don’t want solutions. You want to wallow in self-pity, try already failed solutions just a little harder, piss away more money, and screw up more kids. If someone comes along with real solutions, you throw a fit and declare their proposals to be non-starters. Why? Because they’re something other than the usual crap that’s already tried and failed. You absolutely cannot break yourself of your attachment to the status quo. Bluntly, you are lying through your teeth when you say you want solutions. Maybe in your heart you do, but your head won’t let you get there. Instead, you ridicule the very people that might being something useful to the table.

    Fourth, you keep asserting that your argument is true, but you won’t lift a finger to put some teeth into it. Heck, you expect ME to do it for you, and change the subject when I ask why. I don’t think you’ve got a shred of intellectual honesty in your whole body. Seems more like ADD, with some bullying and a superiority complex thrown in to keep it interesting.

    Fifth, you’ve kept me entertained for the last day or two, but my interest is waning. *yawn*

  39. theobsidianfiles says:

    Come on. We all know Newark is a majority Black city. Please stop with the cutesy word games. You’re not as smart as you think.

    Again: I’m not the one bitching and moaning about damn near everything in this world, you, Foseti and the HBD crowd overall does that. That’s why this blog exists, so Foseti can vent his spleen as to why HBD’s “truths” aren’t being embraced by the powers that be, a theme common to HBD bloggers. Yet none of you guys come up with any workable solutions.

    I’m still waiting.


  40. theobsidianfiles says:

    You have no idea what I think about this or a plethora of other issues. But if you’re interested in actually learning what I happen to think about education, you are free to see my recent post about Obama and the schools on my blog. There I layout a few of what I think are solutions to real problems-solutions that are workable, that can be done.

    Holla back


  41. ScottS says:

    So I have to guess? Given the context: Newark Area Minorities? Google isn’t helpful.

    If your intellectual prowess in these comments is any indicator of the quality of your blog, I’m going to pass.

  42. […] way of background, last week, I put up a post criticizing Matt Zuckerberg for wasting $100 million dollars. Obsidian jumped to criticize my view […]

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