PIIGS and nordic assistance

When you notice things about various racial groups, you’re often confronted with the fact that people used to notice things about a lot of other racial groups. For example, it used to be common to have bad opinions about the Irish and the Italians.

Nowadays, we’re all supposed to know that those old ideas are absurd. No one pays attention to who is Italian these days, they’re just white people!

And yet . . .

If you pay attention to what’s happening in Europe, you can’t help but notice that the bigots of yesteryear seem to have been on to something. All the nationalities that were discriminated against in 1800s and early 1900s in America – the Italians, the Irish, the Greeks, the Spaniards – are the ones that are close to default in Europe today. All the nationalities that are supposed to do the bailing out are the ones that were not discriminated against (and that presumably did the discriminating) in the same time period – for example, the Germans and the Scandinavians.

I’m sure this is just coincidence.


23 Responses to PIIGS and nordic assistance

  1. Hail says:

    Another coincidence:

    By far the most-productive, per-capita, economy of the Soviet-led Communist bloc, was —

    — Guess, now! —

    Yes, that’s right. It was the German Democratic Republic, called the “pearl” of the east-bloc economies.

    This despite starting the war with most of its infrastructure ruined (and with what was left seized by Stalin, as a punitive measure, through 1949), depleted of a big share of its labor force through war losses, demoralized, demonized, occupied, burdened by German refugees from the east.

    Coincidence explains a lot, in the world.

  2. The PIIGS have their virtues; financial discipline and circumspection are not the highest of them. Doesn’t make them bad people, just means you shouldn’t lend them money as though they had a German credit rating. Unfortunately this is the situation created by the monetary union.

  3. Jehu says:

    That’s why God invented separate nations 🙂 Expecting one group of nations to subsidize another is a recipe for resentment.

  4. Steve Johnson says:

    The dominant strategy in ruling when there is a democratic government is to create a cheaply bought off underclass – that enables the ruling coalition to afford to expand to the largest (hence most stable) size and still be able to afford to pay off the raw numbers of voters needed to keep in power from any insurrections from the host (the productive classes).

    Progressives are acutely aware of IQ and temperament differences between populations – they need to be for their ideology to work. They need to know who to import and who to exclude. 100 years ago they overestimated the real differences between white ethnic groups.

    Which is ironic – when you read progressives talking about how stupid IQ is because 100 years ago it “discriminated” against southern European white ethnic groups it’s actually progressives who were exaggerating the differences between fairly similar populations because they were the ones who actually hoped that the propaganda about southern Europeans was true. After all, why import an alien class if they’re not going to be a dependent underclass!

  5. dearieme says:

    For several decades the EU was funded by the Krauts, Brits and Dutch. The Frogs and the rest drew from the pot, rather than paying in. I dare say it’s still true, unless perhaps the Scandinavians pay in too.

  6. Matt Weber says:

    Germans weren’t particularly liked when they came to America. But as they tended to settle in unpopulated areas no one really cared. It didn’t get really bad until WWI though. I don’t think there were ever enough Scandinavians for anyone to care and in any case they settled mostly in a place where no one else particularly wanted to go. The main controlling factors for whether immigrants were disliked or not seem to be a: European or not and b: whether large numbers of them settle in the northeast. B is notable because it directly contradicts most of the implications on the subject (prejudice was the official domain of country rubes, esp. Southerners)

    • icr says:

      Huge German immigrant populations in Chicago, Milwaukee and Cincinnati around the turn of the last century: Those places are
      were of course not really “unpopulated”, but no doubt not that important to the national ruling elites headquartered in NYC and Boston.

  7. Fake Herzog says:

    The interesting thing about the Italians and the Greeks in particular is that they were once the cradle and jewel of Western civilization. I just wish we had more data on their populations so we could have a Greg Clark-type historian do a book on why the heck those civilizations fell apart…and gave us modern-day Greece and Italy.

  8. dearieme says:

    Well, Fake, modern-day northern Italy is very attractive, with a successful advanced economy. It’s pretty clear that the bit of Italy that used to be cis-Alpine Gaul is thriving: it’s the bits that were inhabited by the Italics that are backward, corrupt, violent, and so on.

  9. corey says:

    these nations also have lackey gov’ts beholden the USrael and the UK. check out the diplomatic histories and the intrigues that have been admitted to since 1944. these are supposed to be traditionalist-integralist agricultural countries (which they were) but then they had foreign ideas imposed upon them.

  10. “The interesting thing about the Italians and the Greeks in particular is that they were once the cradle and jewel of Western civilization.”

    For Italy/Rome, same problem as America: Bread and circuses, mass importation of an underclass.

    For Greece, the basic problem was genocide of the original Greeks. The Romans disarmed them, but towards the end could not defend them, so one barbarian horde after another passed through, killing all the men and raping all the women on each pass. Today’s Greeks have no significant biological connection to the classic Greeks.

    • RS says:

      I read Dienekes’ essay on that issue and found it pretty convincing. (Of course, he’s a Greek nationalist.) The Greeks look very unique and look a lot like the classical art. I have even observed a Hellene in real life.

      It seems the Greeks had a fertility crash prior to the Roman conquest, owing to declining interest in procreation – reminiscent of how things are in the present day West.

    • Hail says:

      “Wherever the Hellenic and Ionic race has been kept pure, we see proper tall men of fairly broad and straight build, neatly made, of fairly light skin and blond…the lips narrow, the nose straight, and the eyes bright, piercing, and full of light; for of all nations the Greek has the fairest eyes.” –Adamantios (4th-century historian).

      For those inclined to physical-anthropology, the evidence largely corroborates the above, see here: Racial Stock of the Ancient Greeks.

      For those inclined to literature review, this, too, confirms James A Donald’s point: “The Greeks…admired the blond Achilles, but thought that the barbarian Trojan Hector, was black-haired.” (See link for more).

      • Fake Herzog says:

        Hail, RS and James — thanks for the response and the links (I should have thought of checking Dienekes’ website)! I have some reading to do and of course, I take your warnings to heart.

  11. Borepatch says:

    You are a Double Plus Ungood thought criminal. Who knows, maybe we’ll be in the same camp some day?

    • Chris says:

      Interesting question:

      Better to be in a camp with the likes of Foseti and Moldbug or to be outside the camp with the likes of those?


      Depends on the quality of drink and books available, I think. This could explain why the Japanese didn’t complain more about the internment camps during WWII.

  12. jult52 says:

    Well, Belgium is at a tipping point and in danger of joining the PIIGS and the UK has serious credit problems. I’d say that complicates Foseti’s idea.

  13. RS says:

    The babe on the right could be nordish, but she on the left has huge schnoz and eyes for a European:

    You guys can google red-figure pottery (black-figure doesn’t work for this) and seek people with hair tone pretty close to their skin tone. I find about 2%. I admit, there could be some technical or stylistic reason for this that I don’t know about.

    I think the text saying the ancients were rather blond could be suspected to be ideological ; after all there is plenty of such ideological nordicism in the modern world. The author could have been from a lighter part of Greece considered to be only equivocally ‘true Hellenic’ – or he could have been or considered himself to be descended from Dorians or other northerners who might have pushed south. Or maybe he wanted to show Greeks as clearly European and not similar to Levantines. Altogether, I would be more convinced if there were five such texts and they didn’t seem too ideologically related.

    As an aside, please smack me if I start sounding like a smug ‘anti-racist’.

    Finally, I don’t think all Greeks today look all that Southern. Clearly they look less Southern than present-day Italians south of Roma. On the net it’s hard to ensure that you are looking at full-Greeks rather than half, but quite a lot of them look maybe 35% Nordish. I do confess that the red-figure faces don’t seem quite as unique as the modern Greek face seems. But it’s hard to get things exactly right if one is no Albrecht Duerer, and certainly most of the draughtsmanship we see on the red-figure is well below that of most famous moderns — and far, far below Duerer although I find it more interesting than Duerer.

    Last of all, the art world of the ancient Greeks is radically different from that of the north or of the Alpine zone, and has clear affinities with Persepolis, with Hafiz, etc. I admit that this could be a difference of time more than place with Persepolis, but Hafiz (English by McCarthy), a match for basically every European poet, lived in either the 1400s or the 14th century — and there is also a resemblance with modern S. Italy, too. The Nords were broadly ‘romantic’ from the beginning in at least 2/3 of their great works. Just from looking at silver coins alone you can see how different the ancient Greek mind was. Klimt or Wagner can show a strong Hellenism, but it is Nordicized and romantized from the hair to the toes — so, IMHO, is all highly successful Northern classicism:

    I myself am completely Nordish, and I don’t do no affirmative action, ye hearties ; these are my true views.

  14. RS says:

    Yarrr, me comment be in moderation.

  15. RS says:

    I just learned that Etruscans also made red-figure. So one might want to search Greek red-figure specifically.

    What should have been obvious to me at once is that red-figure has only two values, or occasionally three. A single clay-red and a single black. This might be a reason for depicting hair as black even if it were in fact light, or even quite light brown.

    Here is a three-value red-figure showing light brown hair.

  16. […] both the oldest (b.1935) and the most-German (87.5%) of the presidential candidates. Perhaps it is unsurprising, then, that he is also seen to be the strictest on fiscal […]

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