Moldbug vs Auster

In light of some recent posts from Lawrence Auster, you may find it worthwhile to revisit his old debates with Mencius Moldbug.

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9 Responses to Moldbug vs Auster

  1. PA says:

    Moldbug created a fantastic conceptual model of caste-conflicts and host of other insights, but its good when some of his ideas get challenged. My quibbles with his writing, some being differences of substancr, others of style:

    – too Brahmin-heavy in his theory of who dominates the world. A case can be made that Optimates in the form of global financiers are the real top dogs, with Brahmins serving as their protagonists. After all, why did the Old Labor in effect capitulate on nearly everything to Old Capital?

    – I’m not a MacDonaldian deterministic, but MM makes the opposite error that anti-Jews make in absolving Jewish leftists of everything. My own position is similar to Auster’s in recognizing specifically-Jewish leftism as a principal actor.

    – I disagree with his proscriptive position on that color-blind elitism can work. His Formalism ignores innate trials and mate-competition.

    – this is a style-related point. It didn’t feel right for me to see him write with ironic detachment about, inter-alia iirc, Boers bring tortured and killed by blacks, and eventually showing real emotion and anger when … a fool son of a Lybian-American surgeon got his head blown off on a Romantic misadventure in his ancestral country.

    – another one: when writing about Brevik after the massacre, of all terrible things you could legitimately call him, he calls Brevik… “stupid.” Why not just come out and say “goyische kopf”.

    All that is to offer points of difference to those in this sphere who rightly, like me, consider MM to be a valuable writer.

    • PA says:

      “innate TRIBALISM”, not “trials.”

    • PA says:

      “with Brahmins serving as their PROPAGANDISTS”

    • Zimriel says:

      PA, in fairness to MM, none of us suspected that most global financiers might be non-Brahmins until they turned around and supported Romney in 2012. We on the Right for decades have been (still are) barraged with “Soros, Soros, Soros” – who is a Brahmin. We had to learn that Soros is not a representative member of the global financial community.

      It is an interesting notion that Goldman Sachs et al. are actually Optimates. You know… I think I agree with you. A lot of them were born Jews but these are the Jews who desperately wanted to join those country-clubs, instead of burn them down. Time goes on, and people like that have the cash to buy out those country-clubs.

      Rodney Dangerfield in “Caddyshack” (playing a savvy Polack, not a Jew, if we’re being nitpicky) was an Optimate; he just came from prole / Vaisya-Helot roots. Ten years from the end of that move, Dangerfield’s character would be even more snooty than Smalls and the rest of that bunch.

      • asdf says:

        IB Brahmin’s are more careerist Brahmins rather then true believers. Nonetheless it means they are completely unreliable to fight leftism (hence why they engaged Obama initially, and will again).

    • asdf says:

      If your worked in IB you would have seen this Optimate to Brahmin switch going on. Also the rags to riches cases have really taken a hit too.

      When banking was boring Optimates did better. When it got “innovative” you got a lot more Brahmins.

  2. PA says:

    Rockefellers, Carnegies… intellectuals or captains of industry?

  3. SOBL1 says:

    I enjoy reading both Moldbug and Auster. Moldbug has the split in US society right with the castes. He has the power set up right with the Cathedral. I do think control of that power structure has shifted. My thought is that starting with deregulation of banking in the late 70s, the Wall St financiers executed a coup on the power structure of the US. This extends not only to lobbying and fundraising for pols but for their decent ownership of the media outlets in the US.

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