Randoms

– The new clerisy.

Immigration and Social Security (and unemployment).

– Paleo retiree on Jared Diamond.

He also asks, “How is that a few people who become parents continue to be fun and interesting nonetheless?” I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too.

– On Ferdinand Bardamu.

– Devin on economic classes.

– Derb on the inaugural poem.

– “Big Five traits and IQs of various cultures statistically explained 70% of a nation’s gross domestic product (GDP) per capita.”

– I’m late to this, but it’s worth reading.

– It’s becoming increasingly obvious that economic interventions by the Fed are helping only the large banks (after the last round of QE, mortgage rates didn’t move, but big banks sure have gotten a lot of crappy mortgages off their books). As Arnold Kling notes, the bailout of AIG, “looks much more like a bailout of Goldman Sachs (and many other large banks, domestic and foreign), financed by the sale of some profitable AIG subsidiaries. From the vantage point of the central bank, that was good policy.” I’ve argued for a long time that the Fed is at least as concerned with the health of the largest institutions it regulates than with inflation or unemployment.

– Professor Caplan briefly takes a break from arguing that he likes immigration more than anyone else to argue that signaling ossifies behavior.

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58 Responses to Randoms

  1. @samsonsjawbone

    oh noes not teh butthex!

  2. Toddy Cat says:

    I don’t get it. If you don’t want to read manosphere blogs, don’t read them. Why, exactly, should the rest of us care? Personally, I quit eating white bread a few years ago, but I didn’t feel obliged to share my decision with the masses. The implication is always ” I quit doing x, and you should, too”. As if we didn’t have enough egotism and nannying in our society today.

  3. Anonymous says:

    What a horrid name, manosphere.

    • Anonymous says:

      It truly is.

      There’s a bit of truth in “samsonsjawbone” point. While his holier than-thou Christianized attitude is annoying, and a bit odd, and his worldviews seem somewhat deluded, there is a bit of value in what he wrote…this blogosphere in general should try to escape some of its overtones of sexual angst and frustration. So many legitimate arguments and truths are lost that way.

      Alt-Right seems a far more fitting title then “manosphere”.

      • Anonymous says:

        I don’t read “manosphere” blogs, as far as I know, but I think a lot of those overtones are placed on it by outsiders employing the classic (ahem) jewish argument technique of saying “he obviously can’t get laid”.

  4. Matthew says:

    Samson’s been a notable whiner and troublemaker for a long time now. I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns out to have been a paid operative.

  5. I try to treat blogging as a public journal.

    Actually, scratch that, journals are used for whining, too.

    After seeing a friend’s blog, where he had interesting content, but would sometimes whine about his malaise that week, I decided that I would make a great effort to cultivate a personality, rather than whine about random crap, whether that be day-to-day issues, or political feelings.

    Clearly, I should whine more.

  6. Remnant says:

    Re: Distancing oneself from the manosphere.

    I’m sure there is a fair share of less than constructive material coming out of the manosphere (I don’t tend to spend very much time reading manosphere blogs). Even more than other “red pill” areas, it inherently attracts people who tend to be negative because of various bad experiences they have had.

    That said, I thought the piece was extremely weird and incoherent. The problem with the manosphere is that too many Christians are asking their wives for sodomy … and the example cited of one of the problem blogs is Dalrock? Are you kidding me?

    • Toddy Cat says:

      I agree. Anyone who calls Dalrock “whiny” has simply not read him, and that makes me doubt much of the rest of the argument. Sure, there are whiny and/or immoral manosphere bloggers, but Dalrock ain’t one of them, and he’s hardly responsible for the things some of his commentators get up to. Just an odd post, all the way around.

  7. Handle says:

    I’ve been seeing this a lot lately in a wide. Shall we call all these folks “The Antisphere?” Or is that taken? The internet is just inherently fissiparous, and the red-pill community especially so.

    Look, there’s a lot of folks I read with whom I’m generally in agreement or sympathetic but who also spout the occasional bit of nonsense that I need to disregard. I also read a lot of people on the enemy team, but who occasionally produce a nugget of value every now and again, and I feel pretty confident in my ability to mine specks of gold even in the midst of all that dross.

    But maybe there is some small risk of unexpected and undesirable negative influence – a kind of personal corruption. This is what the anti-porn people often say when answering, “what’s wrong with it?” with “It’ll warp your mind and your sense of sexuality forever and you probably won’t even realize it, and even if you do, you can’t ever easily ‘unsee’ it and go back.” I wonder if there’s a contamination / corruption element to some blogging too that worth a precautionary distancing.

  8. PA says:

    – “Alt-Right seems a far more fitting title then “manosphere”

    The word ‘manosphere’ is loaded with homoeroticism and omega-male resentment of the female.

    • Remnant says:

      We would need a pretty complicated Venn diagram to map out all of the spheres that comprise and interact with the Alt-Right. The fact is “manosphere” is in no way a synonym or substitute term for “AltRight”.

      Many manosphere types (e.g. Robert Lyndsay, Roosh, some of the people Ferb used to butt heads with, etc.) are not right wing at all; they are left wing. In addition, much of the foundational alternative right (Larry Auster, Moldbug, Sailer, even RIchard Spencer’s AltRight itself) are not part of the manospere at all, except in perhaps the most tennuous way. Then there are the quite far right places like Occidental Observer, Occidental Quarterly, Counter-Currents that are certainly part of the AltRight and that have nothing to do with the manosphere.

      I don’t particularly like the term manosphere, but there is a need for SOME term that describes the anti-feminist, non-mainstream, pro-men blogs that is in some ways related to but is a highly distinct phenomenon from the true Alternative Right.

      In my mind, the Alternative Right encompasses: politics, critiques of mainstream diet (Free The Animal), exercise (Art De Vany) and medicine (Weston Price); neo-traditionalism; preppers / TEOTWAWKI types; game; some “manosphere”; among others.

      This list (which is not comprehensive) should show that there is no way “AltRight” can be used interchangeably with “manosphere”.

      Also, most of there various constituents overlap with but are not co-terminous with right wing ideas: many alt-right types, for instance, are sympathetic to paleo diet ideas but generally the paleo diet community is as SWPL as it gets. Try making race realist comments on a blog like Mark Sisson’s and you will be instantly attacked.

      • Foseti says:

        There’s a certain overlap in the Dark Enlightenment sense – taking that term to mean acknowledgement that people aren’t equal. The manosphere generally is more interested in the differences across gender, while the alt-right is (more tenuously here) interested in the differences across race or other characteristics that would lead a hierarchical society.

      • asdf says:

        Half sigma once produced a graphic with “the left” in the center and “the right” all around it. The best your going to get is that the alt-right, man-o-phere, whatever is simply people who don’t buy PC wholesale. Since PC is increasingly becoming the “unreality” party you could simply call it people who call reality as it is. The most common reality being evolution (anti blank slate).

    • PA says:

      Do a thought-experiment. An acquaintance says “hey, there is an alt-Right party tonight, wanna come?” Chances are you may say yes, looking forward to talking with some interesting people.

      But if he asked “hey, there is a manosphere party tonight, wanna come”, you will most eagerly wait for him to finish his invitation with the words “no homo” — and even if he does, your head will most likely be filled with visions of unbuttoned flannel shirts playing D&D.

    • Matthew says:

      Heterodoxy –> Heterosphere.

  9. josh says:

    Devin’s post was well done.

  10. NZT says:

    That article about Ferd certainly was a slobbering blowjob. The highest praise I could give IMF is that it was the prototypical 20-something me-too alt-right blog, setting many patterns that others would imitate:

    – A callow young man holding himself up as a guru, dispensing life advice and worldly insights stolen from better blogs
    – It always felt like the point of the blog was so that he could tell girls he was hitting on that he was A Writer
    – He not only didn’t realize that Fight Club was satire, he seemed to really think he was the main character (typical of the overall pattern of combining affected nihilism with painful earnestness). In fact, “Fight Club without the black humor” is a succinct summary of 90% of the articles
    – He’s frankly just a poor writer, prone to bombastic complaining (his first job is “a hell of ennui and listlessness”), sophomoric references to Russian novels (“We’re all little Stepan Trofimovichs”), and transparent humblebragging (his blog has let him “cross swords with some the most intelligent and perceptive people I’ve known in my life”).

    These things have sprung up like mushrooms in the past couple years. The only solace is that most of them will probably only stay around for a couple years until they too have enough material to combine into an overpriced book, just like their hero.

    • Foseti says:

      I can’t really argue with this, and yet, Ferd struck some chord somewhere

      • josh says:

        He ruled the twerp demographic.

      • Toddy Cat says:

        Ferd’s best years were his early years, before he started to take himself too seriously, and started seeing cosmic significance in every personal irritation. I mean, any guy who says that not being able to use the internet for personal business at work makes the U.S. the equivalent of Brezhnev’s USSR is simply not to be taken seriously, especially since the (increasing) ways in which the U.S. actually does resemble the late USSR seem to have escaped his notice.

      • Firepower says:

        Ferdi was a banner.
        And not the type
        You wave around
        At the head of
        Parades

        If you posted childish vulgarity – it was kwl.
        Disagree with an eloquence
        Green-eyes appeared

  11. Matt says:

    The weirdest thing about the manosphere is how they have this separate vocabulary. What is a “white knight”? I assume “red pill” is a reference to the Matrix, but I’m not totally sure.

    How do they expect anyone to pay any attention when people can’t even figure out what they’re saying?

  12. Anonymous says:

    Ferd seems to have somehow leveraged IMF into a real job that he really enjoys, at least that was my reading of his goodbye post. So he did something right.

  13. PA says:

    Do a thought-experiment. An acquaintance says “hey, there is an alt-Right party tonight, wanna come?” Chances are you may say yes, looking forward to talking with some interesting people.

    But if he asked “hey, there is a manosphere party tonight, wanna come”, you will most eagerly wait for him to finish his invitation with the words “no homo” — and even if he does, your head will most likely be filled with visions of unbuttoned flannel shirts playing Dungeons and Dragons.

  14. PA says:

    Do a thought-experiment. An acquaintance says “hey, there is an alt-Right party tonight, wanna come?” Chances are you may say yes, looking forward to talking with some interesting people.

    But if he asked “hey, there is a manosphere party tonight, wanna come”, you will most eagerly wait for him to finish his invitation with the words “no homo” —

    And even if he does, your head will most likely be filled with visions of forty-something obese neckbeards in tighty-whities and unbuttoned flannel shirts playing Dungeons and Dragons.

    • Anonymous says:

      A Dark Enlightenment party sounds pretty cool imo. But as always, cool depends on the speaker. Cool guys could talk people, even hot young girls, into attending a manosphere party.

    • Remnant says:

      The point is that the manosphere / MRM / game / whatever-you-want-to-call-it is substantively different from and not at all congruent with the phenomenon called the Alternative Right.

      So if someone said “want to come to an AltRight party?”, I showed up and all that was talked about was divorce law, visitation rights issues, false rape claims and so forth, I would feel lied to because that is not what the Alt-Right is.

      Here is a list of what I would consider the core AltRight sites: Sailer, Audacious Epigone, HalfSigma (Lion), Mangan’s, Richard Spencer’s Alternative Right, Occidental DIssent, View From the Right (Auster), Moldbug, Vox Populi (who, notice, has a SEPARATE blog [Alpha Game] to discuss manosphere issues), SBPDL, GLP, Fosetti. If you want to throw in one specific men’s rights blog, we can add Roissy, but only because he discusses other AltRight issues: politics, race, diet, etc.

      If you don’t like the term manosphere (which I don’t particularly either) then come up with another term and try to get it to gain acceptance. Don’t co-opt the term Alternative Right, which is something else entirely.

    • PA says:

      The sexual red-pill blogs (PUA – Roosh et al.) and men’s rights sites (MRA – Spearhead et al.) are an anti-feminist-focused subset of the Alt-Right, not a separate group.

      “Manosphere” is a horrible name, almost as bad as the abortive and nerd-reeking “gamesman” that some had floated as a synonym for PUA. I don’t have a better term for “manosphere” off the top of my head. I normally just say some version of “Game/PUA/MRA” when referring to those groups, or simply “anti-feminist.”.

      You can say that the Alt-Right is an umbrella term for a loosely-associated interest-groups whose views on politics writ-large are informed by evolutionary psychology and human bio-diversity — and who are ideologically aligned against the prevailing ideologies of feminism and multiculturalism, both being subsets of our ultimate enemy, cultural marxism.

      Given the interesting tension between:

      1) anti-feminsts (who can be quite anti-family and tolerant of trends that harm white populations) and

      2) anti-multiculturalists (among whom re many traditionalists and Christians who are indifferent to gender politics and take certain bygone pre-feminist realities for granted)

      … who comprize the alt-Right, you can also say that the alt-Right is a synthesis of sexual realist Camile Paglia and race-realist Pat Buchannan.

      Or — that we are a reconciliation of the original northeast Progressivism before it went mad and embraced chaos, with the southern Old Right and its respect for blood, soil, and tradition.

      • Remnant says:

        You are still underestimating the scope of what the AltRight covers. It is not just “racist” and “sexist”. The AltRight is concerned with: politics, anti-democracy, monetary policy, race, culture, diet, medicine, historiography, game / MRM / manosphere, etc. It is essentially a willingness to go outside the mainstream of “accceptable opinion” in ANY area of contemporary concern. For that reason, using AltRight to refer to just the manosphere is not right.

        In addition, you are not correct that game / MRM / manosphere are NOT exclusively right wing. W.F Price set up (or talked about setting up) a policy to exclude “racist” comments at The Spearhead, and was very unwelcoming to race realist / right wing perspectives in the comments, to say nothing of the articles themselves. That is fine since he prefers to have the discussion focus on men’s rights issues, but the point is that he does not see his site as right wing at all.

        The same is true for many other MRM sites: Roosh is not right wing to me (libertarianism is really not right wing / AltRight), Robert Lindsay is communist, etc. So while there are issues addressed by the manosphere that are of interest to the AltRight, it is not the case that the manosphere is predominantly AltRight. In fact, many men’s rights folks are still hostile to much of the AltRight agenda (anti-democracy, race realism, etc).

        And this is the point, while there can certainly be disagreement and diversity of opinion in the AltRight, for the core AltRight we are talking about people who have swallowed the red pill IN TOTO not those who happen to have one pet issue that jibes well with some parts of the AltRight agenda.

      • Remnant says:

        Correction to one sentence: should have been “In addition, you are not correct that game / MRM / manosphere are exclusively right wing.”

    • Matthew says:

      Alt-Right party: gay
      Manosphere party: losers
      Racist party: I’m in.
      Sexist party: I’m in.

      Lesson: take their names for us and run with them.

  15. PA says:

    The third major component of the ALt-Right is what you can call “libertarians.” They tend to accept many of our present impositions of cultural marxism (feminism, immigration – some even promote it) — but they oppose redistributionist politics and who have a weak stomach for the official happy-face Equalism narrative.

    I’d certainly put Tyler “Cheap Calupas” Cowen et al. and tentatively Moldbug and Foseti in this camp. Tentatively, because they oppose feminism and multiculti, but very indirectly.

    • Firepower says:

      If we get ONE MORE
      Hard-hitting blog of
      “Brave Indirectness”
      Ghandis’ corpse is gonna throw up.

    • Remnant says:

      Reread Moldbug and then medidate further on your view that he is a libertarian.

      You might start with this: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian.html

      I leave it to the host of this website to respond as to whether he is a libertarian.

      • Foseti says:

        Certainly it’s not hard to influence from various libertarian (mises not reason) writers in his thought, regardless of whether he’s libertarian or not.

      • Remnant says:

        He was very influenced by Mises and Rothbard, and respects them very much. Nevertheless, it is a fundamental misreading of MM to come away thinking of him as a libertarian. A king who rules over his realm in a libertarian way is a monarchist, not a libertarian.

      • Foseti says:

        So is Hoppe (Democracy, the God that Failed) not a libertarian?

      • Remnant says:

        Hoppe certainly represents a paradigmatic transformation in libertarian philosophy in a way that none of his antecedents – whether, say, Rand, Mises, Rothbard – did. The major problem with most libertarians is that they are unable to recognize that the means to achieve a largely libertarian society is not through libertarian governance. Hoppe cut that Gordian knot. Regardless of the influences on Moldbug, I think it is extremely difficult to apply the label “libertarian” to him as that term has historically been understood. From 30,000 feet, it is obvious that libertarianism, classical liberalism, is a part of the left. Moldbug ain’t a part of the left. To a great extent, neither is Hoppe.

      • Remnant says:

        Moldbug in his own words: “As a post-Misesian, I am a third class of libertarian: a royalist libertarian. Which is to say, a royalist. Going where Professor Hoppe fears to tread, I set myself to the problem of finding a good King. And getting him into office – and making sure he stays there. As a royalist, I take it for granted that a good King will pursue libertarian policies, if of course they are called for.”

        The link below is to the posting where he makes it clear that Rothbard, Mises (from link: “Mises, being a liberal”), and Hope are left liberal.

        Moldbug is subtle, and many will come through his writings missing the distinctions he is drawing between libertarian societies and libertarian governance. And the reason why a “libertarian royalist” is, quite simply a royalist (very close to how I put it in my comment above).

        Moldbug also sees Hoppe as something other than, something beyond, libertarianism: “There is actually a very easy means by which a Misesian can go past libertarianism. The means has a name: Hans-Hermann Hoppe.”

        http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.hk/2010/02/from-mises-to-carlyle-my-sick-journey.html

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  17. PA says:

    — “W.F Price set up (or talked about setting up) a policy to exclude “racist” comments at The Spearhead, and was very unwelcoming to race realist / right wing perspectives in the comments”

    Like I said: PUAs/MRAs can be quite tolerant of trends that harm white populations.

    • Remnant says:

      So those who are tolerant of trends that harm white populations are best referred to as “the Alternative Right”?…. I seem to be beating a dead horse here but once again, the manosphere (or whatever you wish to call it) is not the alternative right.

      • Firepower says:

        Price banning race-realist SPEECH
        Is about as stupid
        As a Race-Realist Site
        Silencing anti-feminists.

        Feminism and MultiCult are different divisions
        Of the SAME Army

    • PA says:

      The Alternative Right, as I’ve been trying to make clear, is a coalition based the premises of evolutionary psychology and human biodiversity, or more to the point, on “anti-PC”.

      As is often the case with loose coalitions, there are factions that have complementary core goals, but also have friction amongst each other on some things.

      Men’s rights and White advocacy are complementary objectives. In fact, both need each other. But some Game/MRA types are nonchalant-to-liberal on race, and some pro-Whites are nonchalant-to-liberal on gender.

      • Remnant says:

        I agree with what you are saying here. My point is that certain of these factions are more accurately described as “right wing”, and if we are going to use the term right wing to describe the overall movement, it has to be the right wing / reactionary factions that are the center of gravity of the movement. In my view, the manosphere type activists are — taken as a whole — less accurately described as “right wing”. To shift to another example, the paleo diet trend is highly influential among alternative rights circles (e.g. Mangan) but the paleo diet movement itself is most decidely not right wing. I see the manosphere in similar terms.

  18. PA says:

    “Reread Moldbug and then medidate further on your view that he is a libertarian.”

    He also wrote a big post titled ‘Why I am not a White Nationalist’ and yet in the make of this past election advocated for a one-party White state.

    Not exactly in those words. But In the recent column ‘Adore the Rivers of Meat’ he implored that we completely surrender to the Inner Party on everything, asking that in return they stop importing non-whites and instead use working class whites as labor.

    • Remnant says:

      Moldbug is not not a libertarian because he wrote a post with that title, he is not a libertarian because he is an explicitly reactionary monarchist who believes in the absolute sovereignty of the ruler, i.e. the exact opposite of “limited government”.

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