The mandarins

Arnold Kling rounds up the latest articles criticizing the ruling class.

There are two ideas about the elite/lower-class divide that seem to be held by people who think about these issues.

The first idea, expressed in these posts, is that the elites need to spend more time with the lower classes so that they can (I’m not precisely sure about this) speak the language and understand the problems of the lower class. Speaking such language more broadly would be a terrible development and the problems of the lower class are not particularly difficult to understand. Anyway . . .

The second idea, best expressed by Charles Murray (though I doubt he’d put it the way I would), is that lower classes are basically falling apart. Murray seems to believe that the lower classes would benefit from exposure to the upper class, because the upper class still lives in a productive way.

On one hand, elites need to understand the poor so they can better help the poor, on the other hand, the poor need to see the example of the elite staying married, working and participating in civil life.

I see a few big problems with these ideas.

Obviously, they’re wildly unrealistic. Why would elites volunteer to spend time with an increasingly dysfunctional lower class? Even if you could convince a few, I’m highly skeptical that more cross-class exposure would actually do anything.

If you really read Murray’s work, I think you can’t help but draw the conclusion that the differences between the upper and lower are becoming more well-entrenched. Worse, as the lower class gets worse, the problems get harder to fix (though not even remotely difficult to understand). How do you fix the problems of an unmarried, unskilled, uneducated woman with a bunch of kids, especially if she’s never known any other way of living?

Finally, it’s not clear to me what’s supposed to happen to elites as they gain exposure to the lower class. Does exposure to increasing dysfunction make for better government or policy ideas? My own minimal exposure to the lower classes has made think that their problems are largely (and increasingly) insoluble. It certainly hasn’t left me with lots of good policy ideas (other than the obvious and unmentionable ones).

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49 Responses to The mandarins

  1. Isegoria says:

    Murray argues that the upper class needs to resume preaching what it practices.

  2. jl02 says:

    Half Sigma / Lion of the Blogosphere has always been on point about this: teach and practice middle class values, recognize cognitive differences of ability / time-future orientation / impulse control, educationally sort by ability, and stop importing low skill labor.

    However, since the founding of the republic, and well into its descent into bureaucratic oligarchy, ideology will not allow these steps.

    Ours is a right and left – wing Puritan bureaucratic oligarchy, and the right and left – wing liberal philosophical foundations will not allow for it.

  3. josh says:

    1) Philanthropy is best done by humans and not by mechanisms.
    2) When rich and poor occupy the same community, it can help to maintain the community. We once had ethnic communities. Today we have sub-market segmentation in housing. Not only is community disrupted by constant turnover, but underclass disfunction simply serves to empower (and is thus enouraged by) our ruling class.

    Are we really going to call this guy, “The Lion of the Blogosphere”?

    • Foseti says:

      Seriously, that’s the gayest name he could possibly have picked.

      Your point the underclass empowering the ruling class is spot on. But doesn’t it argue that trying to convince the ruling class to move into crappy neighborhoods is even less likely?

  4. The correct solution, were there someone with the power to implement it, would be for the ruling class to enslave the underclass. Thus, the underclass becomes a part of a functional family, and the ruling class gets a large chunk of free labor.

    Of course, the American underclass may be so roont at this point that the ruling class wouldn’t even taken them.

  5. jamesd127 says:

    End welfare for the undeserving poor.

    Workhouses.

    Debt slavery for chronic vagrants and habitual criminals.

    Corporal punishment for crime, execution for repeated crime.

    The experience of slavery was that there are a significant proportion of able bodied black people who are of negative value even as slaves, that even under the most extreme coercion will not earn their keep. Some societies based on slavery were reluctant to kill these people off, and if turned loose they will steal to eat, so wound up providing welfare.

  6. anonymous says:

    “Why would elites volunteer to spend time with an increasingly dysfunctional lower class? ”

    Um, hello? Young “elites” do this all the time…

  7. Drama says:

    I actually just started reading Murray’s, Coming Apart, yesterday. At half way through I can’t yet comment on his entire take, but from my own observations the problem is that the classes become not just divided in class but in power.
    The elites know who/what they are and that they are the source of all solutions. The poor are certainly not going to be able to help themselves, even though if they had the opportunity to, they might do well since they wouldn’t be working with models and overthinking.
    It won’t be difficult for the elites to convince the poor that it’s best for them to let the elites make the decisions for them, what will be tough is getting everyone else to go along with it, though they seem to be making great progress in getting there.

    • VXXC says:

      The problem with our elites is they are endowed with the powers of a paternalistic administrative state, with collectivist powers. That is the New Deal, and it fell apart when the New Dealers fell to the Boomers. For they are selfish and PREDATORY.

      That’s the problem with your underclass being ruled by the elites, gentlemen. Your elites are PREDATORS. They never saw a dollar they didn’t steal – usually legally or with enough political connections to get away with it – and they feed the working class every vice and “dysfunction” they can find. And subsidize every weakness and frailty of human nature. No they themselves would never dream of living the pornographic family lives they feed the people, take the drugs they allow to be funneled to them, or allow the criminals that fester amongst the working class to walk amongst their pampered, soft handed selves.

      It’s all very well to declare we must apply Dickens and Victoria to solve our problems, now WHO do you suggest do this?

      Our elites have morphed into a effete aristocracy, a predatory Latin American PRI del Norte. Proper elites indeed God yes the original Progressives ended or curbed such abuses. Our elites re-introduced them. Foesti you yourself are a member of what is in all other contexts but our sacred government *organized crime*. Your government has not saw a crime or predation the last 20 years [Clinton] it has not partnered with, the Statist predations began under LBJ. Not a crime. All the mobs rackets you are now the managing partner.

      You should be leading the plebes. Instead you prey on them not even as the patricians exploited their plebes, nay as conquistadores.

      For of course you consider yourselves above those you deliberately degraded over decades. So no, please don’t help.

      America yet lives and lives strong. America’s non-elites will have to seek both leadership and moral rejunvenation from within itself, and it can. The people are still good in soul and strong of heart. Simply leadership is what they lack. They can reach out and find that as well. But they’d be fools to listen to you.

      Please…don’t help. If you want to help…when the moment of predation by feckless fools failing to understand even their own natures never mind their countrymen’s …when that moment comes do please have the Grace even the USSR had, and step aside without a fight.

      I doubt it. But that’s the best you can do. DC will end. The best you can do is make it as painless as possible.

      • Foseti says:

        Good stuff. Style points for sure.

        “The people are still good in soul and strong of heart”

        For what percentage do you believe this is true?

      • jamesd127 says:

        It’s all very well to declare we must apply Dickens and Victoria to solve our problems, now WHO do you suggest do this?

        Dickens was a leftist, the Victorians were leftists. That was when the rot set in.

        For solutions, have to look back before 1830. Our most recent period of good government was that which led to the scientific and industrial revolutions: theocratic Britain from the restoration to the empire. It all started going to hell when they elevated Queen Victoria from queen to empress, thereby giving legal recognition to the British empire, and not long thereafter gave Marie Curie two Nobel prizes for work that was entirely unremarkable when men did it.

        The British empire only functioned well when it was not altogether legal, when it was not really a state function, when pirates and imperials literally wore the same hats.

      • Foseti says:

        “The British empire only functioned well when it was not altogether legal, when it was not really a state function, when pirates and imperials literally wore the same hats.”

        Good stuff. Never heard this theory before.

      • Marc Cabot says:

        And thus men laid, centuries ago, the foundation for all our feral subway yoofs. Imperium fragments irreversibly and entropically – monarchy descending to oligarchy, oligarchy to aristocracy, aristocracy to democracy, democracy to mere anarchy.

        Which fruit has taken many a year to ripen. But what a fruit it is! Now, at last, we see it in its glory. No other recent day knew such a thing. Yoofs!

  8. VXXC says:

    You cannot lead people out of a pit you led them into to…

  9. Handle says:

    I remember reading a story about Irving Kristol. In 1942 he was in full Enquiry Radical Trotskyist Leftist “US Socialist Workers Party” mode and really believed all that idealistic nonsense about the uncorrupted virtuous purity of the proletariat, yadda yadda. Then he joined the Army (as a Private with the 12th Armored Division, though he had graduated from New York City College two years prior and could have been an officer) and met a lot Chicago underclass on the way through training and to war.

    He had already met his share of working men as a machinist in the Brooklyn Navy Yard – but it was common for smart and educated men to work in such field in the Great Depression-WWII era, so that experience had not quite prepared him for the real, unfiltered exposure to the proles that the Military was about to provide him.

    And upon actual having real long-term undiluted exposure to the proletariat, he realized that, in fact, a lot of them were lousy human beings you didn’t actually want to live around.

    Personally, I’ve met my share of “potential elites” from white upper middle class upbringings, that, through the military, or certain other professions – social work, ghetto urban teachers, etc. – get direct exposure to the underclass for an extended stretch of time, and while there’s been a great deal of similar “delusion shattering” and “true learning and understanding about the life and problems of the underclass,” the result is burnout, contempt, and flight and struggle to live and work amongst one’s “true peers,” and not at all an enhanced sympathy or better ideas for policy.

    The military is still the only semi-feudal-aristocratic type of organization I know where (at least in the idealized version) you give a smart, educated individual a group of average men and immense power to run their lives and the good incentive to run those lives well to maintain the capability and effectiveness of the overall unit purpose – all built on reciprocal loyalty.

    The “power to run their lives” bit is key. Ideally, your society has a system of acculturation and social conditioning in the virtues to hand you working material that, mostly, is able to take care of itself. Otherwise, you have to act the tyrant to make the uncivilized grunts behave.

    Look, I think the Mandarins are gradually coming to these realizations. They don’t like the stupid proles, and need immense power – through government – to intervene in every aspect of their lives because they are like children who can’t handle things on their own.

    Anyway, the question really is, especially if you’re a mandarin yourself, “Why care about the proles anyway?” And the answer is really that all but the most successful Mandarins end up spending every dime of their disposable income bidding up the land-price of housing in scarce, low-underclass (or gentrifying that way) neighborhoods. Maybe you’re at the 85th percentile, but if your society become Brazil, and you can’t afford the gated fortress on the hilltop, then you’ve got to put up with the favela right outside your door.

    • anonymous says:

      Anyway, the question really is, especially if you’re a mandarin yourself, “Why care about the proles anyway?” And the answer is really that all but the most successful Mandarins end up spending every dime of their disposable income bidding up the land-price of housing in scarce, low-underclass (or gentrifying that way) neighborhoods. Maybe you’re at the 85th percentile, but if your society become Brazil, and you can’t afford the gated fortress on the hilltop, then you’ve got to put up with the favela right outside your door.

      I think we have a while before this realization really sets in. Right now there are way too many people who figure they can still claw their way up the ladder and pay their way out of hell. But the problem is by the time people figure this out, what are they going to do about it?

  10. Foesti, I interact with the people every day. I spent much of the last 20 years going to war with their sons and yes daughters. War is one helluva revealation of character. I come from the working class/middle class*. They simply haven’t had a leader or a Tribune who didn’t sell them out before he even ascended the forum, not since Reagan anyway. I don’t have a % for you, but if you even ask the question that way…you could try getting out of the bubble. Your chief grievance and that of many seems to be that you even have to see them, never mind deal with them. You could try leaving the DC area, but that might be too much of a shock. Not even Manhattanites hold the rest of the country in the contempt DC holds the nation [I’m looking at Manhattan right now]. This is the contempt an incorrigible criminal [I know some of them as well] holds for his victims. I suspect of course your unmentionable solutions involve waking up one day to find you never have to see the “underclass” again. You’re certainly honest enough to recognize that the government is the problem, and not the solution. It couldn’t of course muster the balls for that solution either.

    I remind you Sir you did ask “what is to be done” in another post.

    Let me make a personal suggestion, try not to blanch. Go into the most soundproofed room in your abode, have the TV going in the living room so you can blame it if anyone hears you and scream “Fucking Niggers I hate you to Death” until you’re hoarse. Believe it not I myself am not racist. I’m not going to play the Left’s game for one thing. Go have a good nigger hate fest, a secret joy. When you let the hate out, maybe you’ll begin to see clearly again. Maybe see the “underclass”, even the niggers and white people who have embraced the meme as human. Sometimes the first step is really – Hate. HATE. Be human, it feels GREAT. No really. I hated the Arabs and Muslims genocidally after 9/11, so much I re-enlisted and went to Iraq, again. After I was there awhile I stopped hating the Arabs. At this moment in History I actually admire their politics. Really.

    What is to be done is to lead and redeem the people, not condescend to them or wish for final solutions. Carried out as usual by someone else. I don’t think that’s what you want, and certainly those around you aren’t going to perform this distasteful task, nor is any likely successor government. Nor me.

    *I suspect that means something very different to us respectively..

    Embrace the HATE. Then pick that which you wish to redeem, guide, maybe even lead. You might surprise yourself.

    I will post under my name so as not to be accused of cowardice.

    • Foseti says:

      I think you’re misreading me in a couple ways.

      First, I just not a hateful sort of guy. Second, I grew up in the upper Midwest – I’m familiar with solid working class folks (I spent a few summers working on my grandfather’s small farm).

      Even if I believed the good lower class could be led against the modern elite, I wouldn’t recommend it. I like the good lower class too much to advocate that they commit suicide.

      • VXXC says:

        Unmentionable solutions?
        Oh, I’m misreading you. Ah.

        I think you are misreading the modern elite. They…aren’t…I’m really glad for instance [as Moldbug pointed out] that we’re not facing the actual Bad Ass New Deal government that set this up.

        Well I guess then abandon nearly the entire United States that doesn’t work in government or the higher echelons of crony captialism. Because it’s suicide to take on Gatsby and his elite crew of Yglesitas.

        Back into character. Since it’s not an issue.
        VXXC

  11. VXXC says:

    Hmm. At times I feel that the real quarrel with the Progs is they have beat you out for Aristocracy. Do I have many here? Yes?

    And how did the Progs get this power, and still to no small extent affirm it?

    Could it have been democracy and those very commoners?

    Well then, as to what is to DO there’s a proven formula. This may be an opportune moment. They’re quite dis-satisfied and with reason. Not only are the current elites public disgraces openly looting the nation, our arts pornographic sewage, our finances ruined but on top of all that….this government mis-steps with every stride. On rather key issues. The shall we say Second issue for instance. First they set off a powder panic and enrage the nation, then they fail to deliver.

    That’s WEAK.

    You might also point out that in Brazil-istan [I think Brazil has more opportunities in many ways] slots outside the favelas are..limited.

    Really guys? Really? Abandon them to their fate?

    That’s not reactionary. That’s Marie Attoinette, rather her Caricature. The European and other Aristocrats might oppress their people, they did not abandon them.

    They were also expected to take the field. Or face being ostracized by their peers and respected by none.

    You speak of our State as if you expected to face the Sith and Darth Vader. You face Ygelsias and Darth Jar-Jar. If you have no respect for our people, find some self respect. You might bow to Lord Vader. He’s a real bad ass.

    Lord Ygelsias? REALLY DUDE?

  12. Lawful Neutral says:

    >problems of the lower class are not particularly difficult to understand.

    You really don’t get the argument, Foseti. It’s not about understanding, it’s about empathy. If the high mixed with the low more, they’d remember their responsibility to lead and care for the low. It’s easy to write off people’s suffering in the name of profit, efficiency, ideology, or whatever when you have no contact with them. The biggest problem with the West is that our leaders, broadly defined, see our common people as “them,” not “us.”

    • Handle says:

      “If the high mixed with the low more, they’d remember their responsibility to lead and care for the low.”

      This is simply not true. Every time I’ve seen this happen I’ve witnessed precisely the opposite. See my comment above.

      There are plenty of people from ruling class stock who grow up as idealistic goodie-goodies taught to really care and sympathize with the plight of the poor and the low (not so much the ordinary or the middle).

      They really believe that class is a matter of accident of birth or societal oppression (racism, sexism, or some form of bigotry, almost always), and that a poor, lower class person, is just like them, or, conversely, that they themselves would be just like that poor person were the situations reversed. They really believe that, if only someone like them, pure, smart, dedicated, could bestow upon them poor people a bit of smart leadership and inspiration, they could easily lift them up from their unfortunate station in life and solve their problems. Why, the power of their example alone is supposed to civilize and turn a bunch of street hoodlums into budding Shakespeares, “Dangerous Minds”-style (and a few dozen copycats – Hollywood loves this plot, precisely because a certain audience so desperately wants to believe it could be true. “Waiting For Superman” is the real-life version.)

      In short, they believe a deluded fairy tale despite all the evidence unanimously to the contrary. You see this fairy tale currently playing out with the whole universal preschool push despite the failure of Head Start to accomplish anything. Legions of upper-class youth are encouraged to go into things like social work and ghetto teaching to work their fairy-dust magic. And … nothing.

      What that exposure actually does varies, but hardly creates some kind of lingering sense of loyalty, duty, and affection – which is what you seem to be claiming.

      A few of these (inevitable) burn-outs switch parties and/or ideologies. But most don’t! Most just manage to maintain a state of cognitive dissonance about it while, in their own practical life, they try to isolate themselves and their children as much as possible from these “hopeless” people (and pay through the nose to do so.)

      The conclusion that they inevitably come to (that The Cathedral encourages them to come to) is that, it just wasn’t enough (and it’s the fault of those greedy conservatives, naturally). There’s just too much oppression out there and not enough “investment” from a benevolent government to get the job done. Clearly, I must shift my focus to politics to “make impacts” and “generate awareness” to marshal more support to dump more resources down this black hole into this critical, life-changing area.

      What nearly none of these people have is someone out there that gets past their trust-bubble filters and antibodies who can readily provide them with the ugly but true alternative.

      • Steve Johnson says:

        The best lies have a core of truth.

        The underclass is horrible. The underclass could be far far better if they had proper instruction, employment prospects, and moral guidance.

        Progressives claim that they need more progressive guidance but in reality when the underclass had less progressive guidance they were better behaved, happier, and better to look at (not being pre-diabetic). The underclass is physically and morally repulsive.

        The underclass wasn’t that 50 years ago.

    • Foseti says:

      I agree with handle. The number of deserving poor these days is vanishingly small.

    • VXXC says:

      Exactly.

      And in America, unlike much of the West they actively HATE THEM.

      • VXXC says:

        @Handle, my sympathies are with the ordinary and the middle. My answers to street thugs and what should be done to save their children is positively Darwinian.

        Back to the ordinary and the middle – if you were to define deserving poor as people who absolutely would work, established because they’ve been doing it their entire lives and are now dis-oriented and shamed because they’ve had to go on public assistance to survive, if that for instance is defined as deserving poor – then the numbers are neither small nor vanishing. They’re growing. THIS IS DESIGN, and not theirs..

        For you see those not part of the elites are already mentally classed as UNDERCLASS by the elites who decide their fate.
        If for instance you have anything to do with fiscal or Fed policy you are both elite and deciding the fate of others.

        Get a “Handle” on reality. They’ll put all who are not “elite* – all who are not elite are by default UNDERCLASS.

        *[I’m with Jehu on this one, they’re not elite or educated they’re trained to fling PC monkey poo, the best PC pukers win]

        Look at the Industrial Heartland of the world, now known as The Rust Belt. That was done, that was economic engineering. In fact it is the Morgenthau plan realized on American soil.

        So my dears unless you feel your elite position is so secure ye will never fall to this growing enormous Untermenschen, you may want to consider steps to secure better footholds for yourself and your posterity. For those in you in goverment my advice will probably incline you to further all out predation and peculation if you have the chance. Such as our comfortable ruminating Raskolnikov host.

        For those of you who don’t have this option you may as John Robb put it want to get your own gang as our progress progresses along it’s natural path of the United States of Detroit. As it is the United States there is no refuge. You will be allowed no catacomb or priesthold. Those were the allowed refuge of wiser rulers.

        So Winston perhaps while there is still time you should reconsider the Proles.

        Reactionaries. My prole @zz. Would actual reactionaries leave legions of Cossacks milling about idle? I’m sure they stunk of horse and had all manners of unattractive traits. However they have a key, key trait. The key Winston de la Ungern-Sternberg to your posterity and ultimate comfort; they will draw sabers and charge.

      • Foseti says:

        ” if you were to define deserving poor as people who absolutely would work, established because they’ve been doing it their entire lives and are now dis-oriented and shamed because they’ve had to go on public assistance to survive, if that for instance is defined as deserving poor – then the numbers are neither small nor vanishing. They’re growing.”

        This is a testable proposition. Charles Murray tested it, and your conclusion is precisely wrong.

        The numbers of deserving poor are small and getting smaller. The number of poor that work hard, get married, go to church, etc. is small and getting smaller quickly.

        If you think Murray was wrong, what quibbles do you have with his methodology?

      • asdf says:

        “The number of poor that work hard, get married, go to church, etc. is small and getting smaller quickly. ”

        People respond to incentives. If they are doing these things less it likely means the incentive isn’t there, rather then a whole class of people suddenly rotted away their souls.

        My father did hard labor all his life. He was in a union and made a living wage. He worked very hard, the stairwell going down to our basement has years of employee of the month and perfect attendence awards. He took a lot of pride in all his work, I saw it in every single thing he did around the house.

        Last year the union got busted. All the workers had to take a 40% paycut. They also lost their health benefits.

        Those people are doing the same hard job that my Dad did. Harder even according to my Dad. And they aren’t getting nearly as much. They can’t even support a family.

        If fewer of the next generation sign up for that deal because its a rotten deal, is it because they are less deserving or because their opportunities have died.

    • Bill says:

      Handle said . . .

      [Lawful Neutral says:]
      If the high mixed with the low more, they’d remember their responsibility to lead and care for the low.

      This is simply not true. Every time I’ve seen this happen I’ve witnessed precisely the opposite. See my comment above.

      They react this way for a reason, though. I reacted this way at first.

      The contempt for the low comes from the sense that “those people” choose to wallow in their filth. What upper middles can’t see is that the low are incapable of making good choices. In Christian terms, that they are fallen, concupiscent. They need to be led and constrained for their own good. The upper-middles need to see the suffering of the low as their fault. But not in the dippy leftist sense of not transferring enough of their money to them. Rather in the real, reactionary sense of not providing needed discipline, leadership, and teaching. If your dog bites, it is a kindness to him to train him to stop.

      They are, at present, blind to this message. They can’t see it. District 9 is about this message. In fact, it clubs you over the head with it. How many SWPLs can even see the message that is right there in plain sight? We have to help them see the fnords before anything else.

  13. VXXC says:

    Progress means no ordinary or middle. There will be ELITE and UNDER. The actual “MIDDLE” will be those who interface and buffer the huge and ever growing UNDER.

    Want MIDDLE? Bloombergs NYPD. That’s Middle.

  14. Jeff says:

    This is a subject that has been on my mind a lot lately as I move from traditional libertarian to something else (reactionary, maybe?). Most of the good ideas have already been covered above me in the comments, but if there were one change I would make to our system right now it’d be to bifurcate it. There’s a line (probably somewhere around one-two std below median income) below which people are completely incapable of making decisions for themselves. If we want these people to stop being a complete drag on our civilization, they need to live with a lot less freedom (no divorce and no children out of wedlock, for starters).

  15. josh says:

    Do I, then, hate the negro? No, except when the soul is killed out of him, I decidedly like poor quashee; and find him a pretty kind of man. With a pennyworth of oil, you can make a handsome glossy thing of Quashee, when the soul is not killed in him A swift, supple fellow; a merry-heart- ed, grinnin0, dancing, singing, affectionate kind of creature, with a great deal of melody and amenability in his composition. This certainly is a notable fact: the black African, alone of wild men, can live among men civilized. While all manner of Caribs and others pine into annihilation in presence of the pale faces, he contrives to continue; does not die of sullen, irreconcilable rage, of rum, of brutish laziness and darkness, and fated incompatibility with his new place; but lives and multiplies, and evidently means to abide among us, if we can find the right regulation for him. We shall have to find it; we are now engaged in the search; and have at least discovered that of two methods, the old Demerara method and the new Demerara method, neither will answer. ”

    -Thomas Carlyle, Occasional Discourse on the Nigger Question

  16. VXXC says:

    Foesti you asked me yesterday for a percentage of decent Americans. Today someplace else the question of gun control came up, someone pointed out regisgtration is a step towards confiscation [it is]. A response from part of the % I referred to answered no more so then registering our cars. I pointed out no..there is malice and incrementalism in the matter.

    And here is the key exchange:

    “He obviously means well and it wouldn’t occur to him that there’s malice in the world…an affliction all too common to our countrymen”

    That Foesti is the common decency I’m referring to – they have no living memory of a government full of predation and malice, and do not recognize this one’s nature.

  17. dearieme says:

    The upper classes should stop subjecting the lower classes to such perverse incentives. That would be a good start.

  18. VXXC says:

    @ Foesti – ref your Murray question and the testability of his methods…etc…

    Dude. assuming this isn’t high trolling, you really need to get out more. You’re really drawing your information about your own country and people from strictly academic sources?

    That’s some bubble.

    Tell ya what. Other than special needs types – do, do, do cut all aid to the poor. It will be their salvation. Now while you’re embracing hands off do you think you might apply this to the rest of the economy? In particular energy?

    In fact channeling Moldbugs reboot and indeed the actions of prudent statesmen throughout history: how much to buy you all out? You’re set for life – just you not generational..uh sorry – and you walk away from public life and above all POWER. Forever. But you’ll be set for life. Think of it. You can leave Washington and the Northern South. Never see or smell the “underclass” again. Or hear them which I grant is most grating.

    Think about it. No more “responsibility” and your lifetime income guaranteed. And no mixing with the you know whats…

    Now I could probably test my hypothesis by comparing job advertisements against applications. I’d come up with a deficit. However this deficit is for particular skills of course. So again how much for you and the teachers to walk away?

  19. These increasingly prevalent anti-‘upper’ class articles are merely preparing the ground for yet another, but this time perhaps terminal, expropriation of the kulaks – ‘upper class’ being operationally-defined as anybody who is not a Leftist and who has enough to make it worthwhile confiscating to give to Leftist supporters.

    The idea of upper classes preaching what they practice is ridiculous and dangerous because: 1. what they practice is distilled evil (the systematic inversion of truth, beauty and virtue); and 2. NOT preaching what they practice, or rather preaching what they are not, is their core ideological ‘conviction’.

    It is the ruling elite ideology that must change, not the intensity of (Heaven help us!) preaching.

    • spandrell says:

      I do think there’s good support for a new wave of Communism. But there’s also a generation issue, ‘kulaks’, i.e. people who still have some money, are in general older people. The youngsters would totally go for socialism today, but could you win an election by promising to dispossess the ageing masses?

      You can see that in Southern Europe, which are at the edge of economic collapse. Yet the oldies keep voting for Berlusconi to return them their taxes.

      • @spandrell – Fair point; but once the mechanisms are in place, they can swiftly be turned against (many of) those who voted for them – with the minority of useful supporters (temporarily, contingent upon loyalty) protected by ‘waivers’ and the like.

  20. VXXC says:

    I actually agree Mr Charlton, they do preach and train pure evil.
    And because most people are vulnerable to bad leadership too many have succumbed. I’m actually quite reactionary in many ways – but I am not willing to abandon them. Force them to do right after telling them what it is [they know BTW]? YES. But lets remember not so long ago they were not this way, and largely policed themselves. The ruling class took these defenses away.

    My main point – this ruling class which does train evil and prey upon the weaknesses of the led – must fall.

    Then we can decide how we wish to live.

    However if you’re afraid of Ygelsias…good god man. Darth Vader is one matter. Jar-Jar another…but in that case you shouldn’t do ..anything.

    I am unwilling to abandon my country to Darth Jar-Jar and Palpatine Gatsby. If you are..well fine. Ask not what is to be done…

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